From the picture it looks like the OP is using the kind of material hops and food are vacuum sealed in. We know those hop and food packs stay hard over long times (years), which may prove gases (such as O2) don't pass the membrane.Unless one can find a bag made from a material with very high resistance to oxygen I expect the high purity CO2 goal will simply be unachievable. There will be so much surface area, most bags are quite thin, and I have not been able to find bags made of PET or EVA which might give the idea a prayer of success.
Searching with the phrase "gas permeability food storage bags" produced various hits. Here's one.some evidence
To paraphrase Fox Mulder, the bags are out there.. Maybe Ale could just re-use a bag that, e. g., cashews came in...they're out there
Especially if made of thick metal!A well-chosen bag could work very well.
You're not leaving us, are you?Damn!!! the whole project is slowing down thanks to the increase in knowledge!
Thank you and bye,
Ale
Yeah, those look like the multi-layer mylar* bags I was referring to in #42, as used by Hops Direct, here in the US.these are the bags my shop utilizes now.
Bassman2003: please forget what I've said before, because I've had new inputs so I'll have to revise my project....When you say "store for further usage", what is your goal for the CO2? Just carbonate and serve? Is so, how many kegs do you need to carbonate/serve from?
Basically, how much CO2 are you looking to capture and store?
No I think I won't, even if I have a big linguistic limitation and therefore posting costs me a bit: I have to get a mental image of what I want to say in English, then I have to try to write it and finally (if I'm not particularly pissed off and so I don't care) I want to feed it to google translate to see if there are many differences compared to what I would write.You're not leaving us, are you?
Discussions like these are the best to gather input and ideas from a group with an interest in the matter, aka, brainstorming....
Just trying to find out your end goal. Why are you attempting the project? - Cheap CO2 or pure CO2?Bassman2003: please forget what I've said before, because I've had new inputs so I'll have to revise my project....
Before making a prediction on how many liters I'll need or on the purpose (carbonation or transfer?), I need to better understand the risk of diffusion of O2 in the system.
This i s crucial. When I face this I will go further implementing the system.
Ty and bye,
Ale
Just trying to find out your end goal. Why are you attempting the project? - Cheap CO2 or pure CO2?
I feel another pressure ferment safe vessel corny or fermzilla, feed a CO2 engine with sugar wash and nutrient, you can closed top this up and use this to run your keg setup. Easily run it at 15 to 20 psi, inline reg to your kegs. With beer carbonated by spunding this should easily keep you going.Bassman2003: this is a bit of a difficult question for me!
I think what drives me is the passion for DIY, which I inherited from my father. And perhaps even earlier by my grandfather, who made his own wine (all year round), cultivating the vines; he also raised hens, rabbits, chinchillas, for food and to monetize.
It's been forty years and things have changed a lot and I don't want to be pathetic!
I'd like to be as self-sufficient as possible and produce what I need by myself... that's why I grow hops and try to recycle the yeasts between one brew and another, sometime with evident under-pitching, other times with great results. I'm not interested in winning a homebrew contest, but in producing a decent beer for family use: "homemade"... like grandfather's wine which they say (I was too young), was decent.
So could my goal be "self-produced CO2 with some trade-offs"?
Bye
Ale.
Your initial design is OK but has some flaws. Here’s my improvement on it. Use two (2) corney kegs. Run the CO2 out of the fermenter to the first keg. Out of that keg to the compressor then through a charcoal filter to the second keg. You will have to build an activation circuit using a barometric sensor that can be placed inline with the first keg to turn on the compressor. The sensors are cheap: https://a.co/d/g9sAkIB
But like I mentioned, you will need to build the controller using an Arduino or similar device. And is course, you will need to purge the system before collecting CO2.
And in case your brew makes, too much CO2, just keep a third keg handy to switch out to handle the overflow.
Definitely was a question, as I am no materials engineer. Was thinking of an oil of some sort… certainly a can of worms!What liquid would you suggest that wasn't permeable to gases?
You might almost say it was... qualitative.iow, "quality" is not a fixed metric....
Please Lizard explain why... the only drawback I imagine if moisture goes into the storage keg... is the possibility to encourage bacterial/yeast growth...Not sure if moisture was addressed, but I can think of reasons why you wouldn't want "beer vapor" ending up in your (final) CO2 holding keg.
Exactly that, to eliminate the possibility of "things" growing in there. I doubt the moisture carryover from fermentation, transported outside the fermenter by its gases, to be sterile.Please Lizard explain why... the only drawback I imagine if moisture goes into the storage keg... is the possibility to encourage bacterial/yeast growth...
Nah... too much oxygen intrusion.p.s.: what about replacing bag with this one?
Maybe something optical, triggered by the height (rise/collapse) of the bag?
Rube Goldberg enters the chat
Check, math before coffee.0.6% is 6 parts per thousand.
The first step is getting it to work to spec. Cost effective is another good bar to meet.“If it is stupid and works, then it isn't stupid.”
I’d hazard an estimate that most organisms on earth don’t need O2 to grow. Mostly the large ones need it. Lots of single cell organisms thrive without O2. Yeasts and bacteria esp.CO2, not a conducive environment for growth of anything,
Enter your email address to join: