Spunding question

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GoeHaarden said:
I, unfortunately, don't have a conical yet. I figured I would just take a gravity reading a day after krausen peaked, and go from there.

Would there be any ill effects from transferring too early? Let's say like mid-1.020s? The only thing I can think of is just transferring more yeast than usual which will be handled by cold crash anyways. I just built a spunding valve, and it'll bleed off excess pressure then reseal.

So my plan is to check gravity a day after high krausen, if its below 1.025, rack to keg and set spunding valve to desired pressure (21.6psi @ 60F). Let it go a full two weeks post pitching. Then just throw in the kegerator at serving pressure, and wait a few days to crash the yeast out. Will this work? And more inline with the OP, is ~10 days long enough to carb it?
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I transfer in the mid twenties all the time because I discovered to my detriment that British ale yeast drops really fast so if you leave it too late there may not be enough to finish fermentation. All my beers manage to finish out. I cut about 10mm from the end of my liquid out tube on the serving Keg and don't get any yeast pick up going into the glass, I love it, no murky horrible last pints either when you are practically finished the batch. I just let it sit at room temp at 30psi (for an Ale) until it ferments out, chill it and you get a beautiful creamy finished beer.
 
I have a conical I can pressurize, just put an English Bitter in yesterday.

In a few days when it starts to slow down I will add my spunding valve, and increase temp to 68F.
Check gravity though sample port until complete.

Use chiller on conical to crash cool.
When cold and at target temp I can verify pressure and adjust if needed.

Then pressurize transfer to a keg, not sure I know how to do that yet.
 
GoeHaarden said:
I figured I would just take a gravity reading a day after krausen peaked, and go from there.

Would there be any ill effects from transferring too early? Let's say like mid-1.020s? The only thing I can think of is just transferring more yeast than usual which will be handled by cold crash anyway

So my plan is to check gravity a day after high krausen, if its below 1.025, rack to keg and set spunding valve to desired pressure (21.6psi @ 60F). Let it go a full two weeks post pitching. Then just throw in the kegerator at serving pressure, and wait a few days to crash the yeast out. Will this work? And more inline with the OP, is ~10 days long enough to carb it?
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Probably OK to spund that high. You're right, you will get more yeast debris.

It ''carbs up'' pretty quickly, faster than CO2 forced pressure carbonation, and will be at the carbonation level you set your spunding valve to the first time it releases pressure. The real question it, is it finished working down to your target gravity, in any case 10 days should be plenty of time to get from 1.02x to finish gravity. It should be easy to take a gravity reading from the keg to check that.

As I noted a few posts ago, I racked to kegs and started spunding at 1.013, and hit my target carb level in a couple of days. It worked for a few more days before it was down to target gravity of 1.008. That was a lager, so an ale might be even quicker. I also had to wait a few extra days after that to free space in my keg cooler.(glug glug)
 
MSK_Chess said:
I transfer in the mid twenties all the time because I discovered to my detriment that British ale yeast drops really fast so if you leave it too late there may not be enough to finish fermentation.
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Awesome. Thanks! I've been using a lot of Notty saved from a yeast cake lately and it smokes through some sugars. I think my issue is just going to be catching it in time to have some gravity points left for carbonation.

Dland said:
It ''carbs up'' pretty quickly, faster than CO2 forced pressure carbonation, and will be at the carbonation level you set your spunding valve to the first time it releases pressure. The real question it, is it finished working down to your target gravity, in any case 10 days should be plenty of time to get from 1.02x to finish gravity. It should be easy to take a gravity reading from the keg to check that.
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Thanks! That's crazy that it will be carb'd when it hits the desired pressure. I'm really excited to start experimenting with this. Regarding the beer finishing, I was kind just using ~10 days as an arbitrary number but I would check the gravity to ensure it's done. Kind of sad that I just missed it for my Oktoberfest. Did you reach your pressure going from 1.013 to 1.008?
 
GoeHaarden said:
Did you reach your pressure going from 1.013 to 1.008?
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Yes, it reached pressure and also had to be vented a few times after that. I started out with a manual spunding valve I cobbed together while waiting for parts for the automatic ones, so I was monitoring pressure at least once a day.

And when I first hooked up new one with an auto relief valve, I had it set wrong and dumped all the pressure in one keg, was thinking "OK, I guess I'll at least be able to compare flavor in spunded vs forced carb kegs in the same batch", but it got right back up to pressure. So no experiment, which was fine with me.

I read somewhere on this forum that .005-6 difference between gravity and target gravity is a good starting point for spunding, and that seems to be true, with some to spare.
 
I'll add observation from my latest brews: Last couple batchs got fermented a little warmer than they should, heat wave finally got to my cellar. In the past, the few brews I made under these conditions were fine. But my old protocol was to let yeast ferment all the way out and settle before racking to kegs. In my eagerness to rack before it was all worked out, the beer was left with some acetaldahyde, the "sour apple" taste. I'm going to let the batch currently fermenting work out and rest before racking, and force carb & see if it comes out better. Brought the old batch back up to temp and re pitched from current batch, and it has started working again, so I have some hope it will clean up too.

I'll go back to spunding when cellar cools down some. I know, I should get some fermentation cooling in place, but normally cellar is quite cool and stable due to thick walls and concrete ceiling.
 
Made the mistake of not testing my spunding valve before using for the first time and it leaks. Transferred an Alt to keg today with 4-5 points left, pressurized keg to 28 PSI with gas, then put spunding valve on with it in closed position, and gas was still leaking out of a brass part with holes in it. So until I get that fixed, can I still carbonate without the spunding valve and just pull the keg's PRV every now and then to release excess pressure?
 
I believe prvs blow at 45 psi and corny kegs hold up to around 120psi. Couldn't you test the prv to see if it's good just for safe measure? I think those above values are correct. Any body else know for certain?
 
I started out spunding just by letting some CO2 off out of gas post on keg a couple of times a day. Not a problem if you rack when mostly attenuated, you need a gauge though to know about how much to let off though.
 
jdauria said:
Made the mistake of not testing my spunding valve before using for the first time and it leaks. Transferred an Alt to keg today with 4-5 points left, pressurized keg to 28 PSI with gas, then put spunding valve on with it in closed position, and gas was still leaking out of a brass part with holes in it. So until I get that fixed, can I still carbonate without the spunding valve and just pull the keg's PRV every now and then to release excess pressure?
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I ordered a spund valve from Beverage Connection only to cancel it after three weeks of back order.

I built my own spunding valve with parts from Menards. $5 for a cheap regulator and $4 for a 0-60 psi Gauge. I bought a 1/4 NPT plug and a 1/4NPT to 3/16 hose Barb. Using 3/16 hose connected to gas quick disconnect.

The barb and disconnect is on the low pressure side, the plug is on the high side. The venting works off your gauge set pressure. All of which vents from the low pressure side. Works good and was cheap.
20190130_111616.jpeg
IMG_20190226_021105.jpeg
 
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zeptrey said:
I believe prvs blow at 45 psi and corny kegs hold up to around 120psi. Couldn't you test the prv to see if it's good just for safe measure? I think those above values are correct. Any body else know for certain?
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I know this old... This for anybody reading and having the same question.

I once over pressured a keg at about 60psi it vented out the manhole lid. I saw sanitizer bubbling out the seal lines. It might have leaked out the PRV but the lid was venting as it couldn't hold the the pressure.

At the time I was testing pressures for a fast carb with shaking at high pressure. (Definitely not LOB.) I had sanitizer in the keg and just put it on high gas. At 60psi it started blowing out anywhere it could escape.
 
I've been doin g this in the keg. Set to 10 for the first week and crank it to 25 or so till is done. Then crash and hook up the gas. So far its worked perfect, no blowoffs thru valve, carbed well enough to serve when chilled, good head. I do use a floating dip tube but that won't effect how it works. I just don't deal well with clogged lines. I do use a few drops of antifoaming agent.
 
NGD said:
“spunded beer” Is that what the kids are calling it now days?

That head is awesome man! And nice grill.
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If William Shakespeare was German. He'd have written something as good as this.

But nooo he was a mead drinker and had nightmares of Beowulf.

Beer doesn't do that to you, just makes you gassy.


Spunding_epiphany.jpeg
 
MSK_Chess said:
I so wanted a fermentasaurus but it would mean getting a new fridge/freezer etc I watched a recent beersmith podcast where they were experimenting with fermenting Lagers under pressure at higher temps as far as 30psi which i think is just within the limits of a fermentasaurus
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This is Will from Keg King. There is an upgrade kit coming out which adds many nice features to the FS. Maybe check it out.
 
Bilsch said:
Had me all excited when you said digital, I thought you meant electronically controlled programmable solenoid operated spunding valve. A compact one of those would be way cool.
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Bilsch you crack me up. So funny.

Do you get excited when you have your prostate checked? It's digital!!! - LoL
 
Schlenkerla said:
You must not be 50 yet. Y/N?
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Thanks to modern science you can get the needle or the finger. I choose the former.
P.S. My sphincter and I would like to apologize for the direction this thread has swerved.
 
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Thread resurrection here.

I'm about to attempt my first spund on a lager. I've naturally carbed many Saison and bunged a couple British styles in kegs but never a lager. Reading through it looks like many spund at lager fermenting temps. Would there be any negative results from transferring to the keg around the time you would do a D-Rest and spunding at 20-21C (68-70F)? I'm on day 5 of fermentation and it's starting to slow now.

Edit: I guess I could just transfer to keg and allow to finish fermenting at the lager temps for a week or so more then d-rest if required.
 
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Well I racked it and put a spunding valve on it and put it back in the ferm chamber at 10C. Set my valve to 10 PSI. I did flush the top with CO2 and got the pressure to around 9. This morning I woke up and it was sitting at 10 so I think I'm good to go as it finishes fermenting.
 
Gus_13 said:
Well I racked it and put a spunding valve on it and put it back in the ferm chamber at 10C. Set my valve to 10 PSI. I did flush the top with CO2 and got the pressure to around 9. This morning I woke up and it was sitting at 10 so I think I'm good to go as it finishes fermenting.
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Sorry no one was able to get you a good answer in time. You made the right call. Spund at lager temps and then, only if you need to, raise for diacetyl rest.

Most of the LoOx brewers aren't doing diacetyl rests at all because they aren't getting any diacetyl. Their lagers are never getting above 48-50 degrees (some even colder). That is primarily the result of pitching the proper amount of yeast (which is a metric s*** ton).
 
MrPowers said:
Sorry no one was able to get you a good answer in time. You made the right call. Spund at lager temps and then, only if you need to, raise for diacetyl rest.

Most of the LoOx brewers aren't doing diacetyl rests at all because they aren't getting any diacetyl. Their lagers are never getting above 48-50 degrees (some even colder). That is primarily the result of pitching the proper amount of yeast (which is a metric s*** ton).
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I did pitch a more than recommended amount of yeast and fermented cool around 49-50F the entire time. Fermentation had about a 36 hr delay to start but I thought that wasn't too bad. After I racked, I took a sample to see where the beer was. It was right at 1.018-1.019 and I detected no off flavors at all other than a touch of yeast but definitely no diacetyl so that's good. I'm going to let it sit in there a week or so then take another sample to see if it's finished. Any reason I can't leave the beer in this keg or should I rack to another clean keg? I'm pretty sure the first couple pours may have some sediment but I plan to lager this one until the end of October.
 
Gus_13 said:
I did pitch a more than recommended amount of yeast and fermented cool around 49-50F the entire time. Fermentation had about a 36 hr delay to start but I thought that wasn't too bad. After I racked, I took a sample to see where the beer was. It was right at 1.018-1.019 and I detected no off flavors at all other than a touch of yeast but definitely no diacetyl so that's good. I'm going to let it sit in there a week or so then take another sample to see if it's finished. Any reason I can't leave the beer in this keg or should I rack to another clean keg? I'm pretty sure the first couple pours may have some sediment but I plan to lager this one until the end of October.
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Leave it in the closed spunding keg. You’ll get a little yeast the first 3-5 pints. After that it should clear up.Transferring at this point would negate all of the oxygen mitigation benefits of spunding.
 
MrPowers said:
Leave it in the closed spunding keg. You’ll get a little yeast the first 3-5 pints. After that it should clear up.Transferring at this point would negate all of the oxygen mitigation benefits of spunding.
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Done and done.
 
Could a guy just put a lighter spring in the corny keg pressure relief valve and add say 5 oz of corn sugar to the keg? Just a random thought.

I do like the simplicity of a spunding valve on a gas in ball lock fitting. Does anyone sell those cheap?
 

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