Pilsner grain Bill for LODO

[brewdude88]

Just legged first lodo batch, sample collected from remaining beer In fermenter after closed transfer was incredibly bland (at least it’s not a sulfur bomb). I used 50/50 weyermann Pilsner/pale ale malt which has worked great with non-lodo pilsners... anything you guys use to up the maltiness? I take the blandness as a sign the process did make a significant difference. Not giving up on lodo yet!

 

[Schlenkerla]

Just legged first lodo batch, sample collected from remaining beer In fermenter after closed transfer was incredibly bland (at least it’s not a sulfur bomb). I used 50/50 weyermann Pilsner/pale ale malt which has worked great with non-lodo pilsners... anything you guys use to up the maltiness? I take the blandness as a sign the process did make a significant difference. Not giving up on lodo yet!

You spunding? Carbonation makes a difference.

 

[brewdude88]

You spunding? Carbonation makes a difference.

Not spunding, burst carbonated overnight and just pulled a sample. The fresh malt aroma is now present with the carbonation present! What a difference lodo has made. Super excited about this one after a few weeks of lagering. I may need to drop the IBU’s in the recipe though, the hop bitterness seems more pronounced, although that might balance out as the beer clears during lagering.

 

[Schlenkerla]

Not spunding, burst carbonated overnight and just pulled a sample. The fresh malt aroma is now present with the carbonation present! What a difference lodo has made. Super excited about this one after a few weeks of lagering. I may need to drop the IBU’s in the recipe though, the hop bitterness seems more pronounced, although that might balance out as the beer clears during lagering.

Awesome. Enjoy!!!! You should try spunding though. Use natural CO2 to carb your beer. I can keg in 2-3 days after pitching. I let carb for a few days.

My spund valve cost $10. It's a Menards regulator with a 0-60 psi gauge. I bought the lower pressure gauge since the regulator came with a 0-250 gauge. Both combined was under $10

The high pressure side is plugged and the low pressure side is connected to the gas in post. It vents at 17psi.

 

[brewdude88]

Awesome. Enjoy!!!! You should try spunding though. Use natural CO2 to carb your beer. I can keg in 2-3 days after pitching. I let carb for a few days.

My spund valve cost $10. It's a Menards regulator with a 0-60 psi gauge. I bought the lower pressure gauge since the regulator came with a 0-250 gauge. Both combined was under $10

The high pressure side is plugged and the low pressure side is connected to the gas in post. It vents at 17psi.View attachment 652937View attachment 652938

I use an anvil brew bucket to ferment, I don’t think spunding is an option unless I keg before primary is over. I Typically ferment at 50-55, then ramp to 60 for a couple of days before legging. I did a closed transfer to a purged keg before dropping to lager temps to avoid oxygen getting sucked in.

spunding does interest me to help reduce the amount of c02 I use, My only worry is trapping sulfur compounds, although I suspect this is an unfounded fear.

 

[Robert65]

t, I don’t think spunding is an option unless I keg before primary is over.

Yep, that's exactly how it's done. Low oxygen and natural carbonation, a two fer.
Three fer really, since it means your beer is fully carbonated by the time it reaches FG, so a lot faster turnaround.

 

[brewdude88]

H

Yep, that's exactly how it's done. Low oxygen and natural carbonation, a two fer.
Three fer really, since it means your beer is fully carbonated by the time it reaches FG, so a lot faster turnaround.

How do you know when to transfer to the keg and spund? I have a tilt hydrometer so I can monitor the gravity closely.

 

[Robert65]

H

How do you know when to transfer to the keg and spund? I have a tilt hydrometer so I can monitor the gravity closely.

The best way is to do a FFT (forced fermentation test.) Once the beer shows signs of active fermentation, pull (in a sanitary manner of course) a sample large enough for a hydrometer reading. Put it on a stir plate at a higher temperature than the main batch is fermenting at. After a day or two it should reach FG, ahead of the main batch. Note that with all the encouragement of the stir plate, it will usually finish a couple of gravity points lower than the main batch will. But you can then estimate when you have just enough fermentation left to go to carbonate. Then closed transfer to keg, and attach a spunding valve for insurance, to make sure you don't over carbonate.

 

[brewbama]

H

How do you know when to transfer to the keg and spund? I have a tilt hydrometer so I can monitor the gravity closely.

I learned recently you cannot trust the Tilt for exact SG as the beer is finishing. I had a mountain of crud on it which caused the counterweight to be off giving a false reading. So... just watch the rate of fall curve. When it begins to flatten, close transfer to a purged keg.

 

[Schlenkerla]

H

How do you know when to transfer to the keg and spund? I have a tilt hydrometer so I can monitor the gravity closely.

I transfer when the high krausen activity falls. It's typically when the air lock activity falls to a very slow rate. Numerically it's when it has four gravity points above your expected final gravity.

- Truth be told. - I never really bothered to ask if that was brix or specific gravity.

I would pull a sample at high Krausen. Roughly a pint into a glass container. I would check that daily with a refractometer. I would always seem miss the target spund gravity. Go way past it. So I would move it as soon as it's no longer high krausen. Now I add priming sugar too in case I'm really way off. Cheap insurance on a closed transfer with guaranteed spund pressure.

If you have tilt your job is even easier.

There's a few spund threads out there if you search the forum.

 

[MSK_Chess]

Just legged first lodo batch, sample collected from remaining beer In fermenter after closed transfer was incredibly bland (at least it’s not a sulfur bomb). I used 50/50 weyermann Pilsner/pale ale malt which has worked great with non-lodo pilsners... anything you guys use to up the maltiness? I take the blandness as a sign the process did make a significant difference. Not giving up on lodo yet!

I don't do a fifty fifty more a four to one, four lager/pilsner malt to one ale malt.

 

[Bilsch]

- Truth be told. - I never really bothered to ask if that was brix or specific gravity.

It's one degree plato or 4 gravity points but that is generally for an ale. If fermenting cold there will already be more CO2 in solution so transfer at 2-3 points above terminal gravity.

 

[Schlenkerla]

It's one degree plato or 4 gravity points but that is generally for an ale. If fermenting cold there will already be more CO2 in solution so transfer at 2-3 points above terminal gravity.

Funny you posted, I saw that just this weekend.

Wishing You A Very Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays Bilsch!!

 

[Bilsch]

I used 50/50 weyermann Pilsner/pale ale malt which has worked great with non-lodo pilsners... anything you guys use to up the maltiness? I take the blandness as a sign the process did make a significant difference. Not giving up on lodo yet!

Sounds like it did make a difference and yes low oxygen grainbills will benefit with some amount of caramalz. If you are trying to make a pilsner then try your pils/pale blend with an additional 5-8% carahell or 3-5% caramunich. Another popular one is straight pils with 15-20% light munich.

 

[Blazinlow86]

Strange you found the lodo batch more bland than a non lodo batch. Typically it's the other way around. Cheers

 

[Bilsch]

Strange you found the lodo batch more bland than a non lodo batch. Typically it's the other way around. Cheers

Following the lodo process creates fewer melanoidins resulting in a lighter color, less sweet beer. Small amounts of caramalt is the solution.

 

[Robert65]

I personally don't care much for cara malts in anything, any process. Just me. But 10-20% light Munich makes the malt really pop, and without excessive oxygen, you'll never notice a color contribution. More than one approach possible.

 

[Schlenkerla]

Just legged first lodo batch, sample collected from remaining beer In fermenter after closed transfer was incredibly bland (at least it’s not a sulfur bomb). I used 50/50 weyermann Pilsner/pale ale malt which has worked great with non-lodo pilsners... anything you guys use to up the maltiness? I take the blandness as a sign the process did make a significant difference. Not giving up on lodo yet!

Do you brew the same recipe over and over? If not, you should try doing so.

Strange you found the lodo batch more bland than a non lodo batch. Typically it's the other way around. Cheers

Edit: I started LOB in January of this year.... I'm still on my LOB journey. I've been brewing 14 years.

I think one needs to keep repeating the same beer like the pros in order to know if it really made a difference. If you don't, then you don't really know the impact (positive or negative). Otherwise it's just an opinion after one brewed batch.

I have a three tapper, so I brew three beers.

1) Classic Rauchbier. - Changing the wood type.

2) Basic Pale Ale with 50/50 pale malt and pilsner. - only changing the hops and the AAU

3) Amber Ale (Fat Tire Clone) - only changing the hops and the AAU.

Changes in hops are just because it's a variance in alpha acid. I typically buy local. By that choice I tend to change the hops slightly.

 

[Schlenkerla]

A Worthy Grain Reference....

https://www.brew.is/files/malt.html

Look at Crystal 10L.

 

[brewbama]

Do you brew the same recipe over and over? If not, you should try doing so.

+1

This past summer I brewed a succession of the same APA grain bill changing only the yeast and hops. IMO, the information I gathered and experience gained is an irreplaceable experience. Multiple processes (mill gap, flow rate, water/grist ratio, mash step temps, mash pH, mash length, etc.) and workflow was dialed in. I really got to know my brewery and am confident in how to best use it. I highly recommend it.

A Worthy Grain Reference....

https://www.brew.is/files/malt.html

I use that chart to routinely substitute one malster’s brand name for another’s depending on what’s available locally. Of course, the difference is the barley variety the maltster’s use that really sets them apart. (I.e. Weyermann using Continental varieties while the US uses domestic and U.K. uses British varieties)

 

[brewdude88]

I personally don't care much for cara malts in anything, any process. Just me. But 10-20% light Munich makes the malt really pop, and without excessive oxygen, you'll never notice a color contribution. More than one approach possible.

Thanks, don't know why I didn't think of that. Just finished brewing it up again with a reduction of pale ale malt and addition of 10% weyermann Munich 1 (along with a move to a full volume mash to reduce chance of oxygen ingress during sparge). No noticeable color contribution and the wort tastes so good I can't stop sampling it.