Willygilly
Well-Known Member
No change. You got it correctly.
Storing your CBW®
While you can’t change the way the your extract was shipped to your local homebrew store or even how they stored the product, you can check the date to ensure you are getting the freshest product available and then properly store at your home.
When properly stored, LMEs will keep for two years, and DMEs have an even longer shelf life. If you purchase an LME and do not intend on using it right away, a safe option is to place it in your freezer. This will keep the integrity of the malt extract without changes in flavor or color. However, you’ll want to keep in mind that the second you pull it out of the freezer you will be exposing it to a drastic temperature change and will want to use it right away.
Something to consider: CO2 is produced during fermentation and a combination of CO2 and O2 exit through the airlock. So after fermentation has started, the O2 concentration in the headspace will be greater with a larger headspace.Atmospheric pressure is what would cause oxygen to be forced into the homebrew solution. The volume of air above the surface of the solution doesn't matter because the pressure on the surface is the same everywhere. The area at the surface of the solution is what will determine the rate at which O2 will diffuse into the solution. So, since the vessel I am using has a reasonable inside diameter and is similar to any other vessel that might be used for homebrewing the amount of O2 that diffuses into the solution will be typical.
You make a very interesting and potentially significant point. There is a lot of effort made by brewers to keep air out of the fermenter headspace. Some draw off samples while keeping low CO2 pressure on the headspace to exclude air. Some siphon off the beer through the airlock hole to keep air entry to a minimum. Personally, I use a 7.9 gallon bucket fermenter for 5 gallons of beer - more than most. And I take my early gravity samples by removing the lid and gently dipping a cup into the beer - not considered optimum. If your idea of O2 concentration not affecting absorption is correct, much of the effort being made might not be necessary. I'm not a chemist and can't really say.O2 will only diffuse into the solution if there is increased pressure in the vessel, but the airlock is releasing internal gases and the internal pressure remains the same; atmospheric. Still the vessel volume plays no role in O2 absorption in the solution.
OP still hasn’t provided the 5 gallon recipe used… we have no idea what the ingredients were, let alone AG or extract.In addition to LME darkening as it ages, the way one uses it on brew day will darken it more. That is why many brewers will hold half the extract for a late addition In the boil. Remembering to turn off the heat source and move the kettle off the hot rack prevents burning the extract. Pardon me if this was allready discussed. I didn’t notice in a quick perusal of the thread.
But what about that number from BBR (Aug 25 & Nov 17 2005) where it is stated that extract darkens about one SRM during a 45 minute boil? It's a number that's been confirmed with DME. My first attempt at confirming it with LME started with light red colored pilsen LME .In addition to LME darkening as it ages, the way one uses it on brew day will darken it more. That is why many brewers will hold half the extract for a late addition In the boil.
See my post above yours.But what about that number from BBR (Aug 25 & Nov 17 2005) where it is stated that extract darkens about one SRM during a 45 minute boil? It's a number that's been confirmed with DME. My first attempt at confirming it with LME started with light red colored pilsen LME (full stop).
OP still hasn’t provided the 5 gallon recipe used… we have no idea what the ingredients were, let alone AG or extract.
we have no idea what the ingredients were, let alone AG or extract.
a troubleshooters guide to "darker than expected" extract-based beer
or most steps, if the answer to the question is "no", troubleshooting probably ends and speculation probably begins.
- is a sufficiently compelete recipe, process, and brew day notes available?
- If there is LME in the recipe, is the pre-boil color of the LME known [3]?
- Is the beer clear?
- Is the beer being evaluated properly?
- comparing to another beer of known color using the same glass style, light, ... ?
- appropriately estimating SRM?
- Is the recipe able to deliver the estimated SRM [4]?
- ...
Statements that can be considered 'facts' when troubleshooting:
and some statements that are believed to be correct
- during the boil, wort will darken about 1 SRM [1]
- with DME/LME, as SG goes up, SRM goes up. [2]
- ...
- concentrated boils produce darker wort
- ...
[1] BBR podcasts Aug 25, 2005 / Nov 17 2005
[2] Briess DME/LME product information sheets
[3] one way to measure it: BYO Big Book of Homebrewing, 1e, p 19 (?).
[4] mistakes in recipe conversion, very light colors are 'challenging', concentrated boil (?), ...
So what ever became of this. I've never seen any instructions or recipe from you. All there is the picture of the kit contents which don't give any specifics. Not that I really expect the recipe in the kit to give any specifics. But there is some hope.Oh... woops. Wrong kit instructions. Actually made with a 5 gal pale ale kit
O2 will only diffuse into the solution if there is increased pressure in the vessel,
I hate to blame on anything, but if there is anything I guess I could say it's due to my absent mindedness at age 68.
I noticed that yesterday just before I posted this (below) elsewhere. Some of my posts here have been in response to specific troubleshooting steps in this process.
Hahaha... well I am just thankful I'm still able to enjoy family and friends. This brewing hobby helps to provide a little entertainment and something to do, so I'll keep chugging along. Thanks for the spiritual advise.There's your problem right there!...You are definitely not drinking enough beer...at your age you shouldn't have a mind left!...absent or not you still have one, so drink up Buddy! Drown that st##!
It would be helpful to know what the boil volume is. If it's significantly dense, it will trap heat at the bottom of the pot and darken at an accelerated rate. That's why white table sugar will turn into a medium brown caramel color in a matter of minutes.In addition to LME darkening as it ages, the way one uses it on brew day will darken it more. That is why many brewers will hold half the extract for a late addition In the boil. Remembering to turn off the heat source and move the kettle off the hot rack prevents burning the extract. Pardon me if this was allready discussed. I didn’t notice in a quick perusal of the thread.
If it went into the fermenter amber and came out brown, the only thing that can do that is oxidation.It was amber in color. Now, it's a somewhat darker shade of brown.
You've jumped to an incorrect conclusion.Nothing changed. I am fermenting 5 gallons of beer in a 25 gallon fermenter. After having thought about this discussion last night I decided to go back and rationalize the situation and lean on my education and experience with regard to the question: Does the unused volume of the vessel determine how much O2 will diffuse into the wort, assuming the vessel is sealed and at atmospheric pressure? The short answer is no.
The air in that 20 gallons of headspace is 21% oxygen. It will continue to dissolve into the wort/beer until the beer is at 21% saturation or until the outgoing CO2 from fermentation drags it all out. It will take a much longer time to get purged out when the volume of gas is higher and the CO2 produced is fixed. The damaging effects begin immediately and fermentation does not.The reason is: Atmospheric pressure is what would cause oxygen to be forced into the homebrew solution. The volume of air above the surface of the solution doesn't matter because the pressure on the surface is the same everywhere. The area at the surface of the solution is what will determine the rate at which O2 will diffuse into the solution. So, since the vessel I am using has a reasonable inside diameter and is similar to any other vessel that might be used for homebrewing the amount of O2 that diffuses into the solution will be typical.
It didn't come out yet. It is still in the fermenter, and I haven't jumped to anything. I won't have a conclusion until it's done. BUT, you've got it right; the result will tell the story. Nobody knows that yet. I will continue to sample the wort and once equilibrium is reached, and that will eventually happen, I will know where I stand with the solution. Right now there are just too many variables, and besides all this; IF it goes south I'll just start again. I've made many successful batches before, and I've got lotsa Pabst on backup. So, Bada bing, Bada boom. Thanks for your input!If it went into the fermenter amber and came out brown, the only thing that can do that is oxidation.
You've jumped to an incorrect conclusion.
The air in that 20 gallons of headspace is 21% oxygen. It will continue to dissolve into the wort/beer until the beer is at 21% saturation or until the outgoing CO2 from fermentation drags it all out. It will take a much longer time to get purged out when the volume of gas is higher and the CO2 produced is fixed. The damaging effects begin immediately and fermentation does not.
Contrast that with a 7 gallon fermenter filled with 5.5 gallons of wort.
The thing is, you don't even need to understand why as much as you need to observe the result.
Suspended yeast will make a beer appear darker than it actually is until fermentation is totally complete and as much of the yeast as possible has flocculated and the beer has cleared.
In my experience it's quite the opposite: suspended yeast lightens the apparent color. Indeed I can watch the top of the fermenter turn "darker" as the yeast start to drop and that portion of the beer column clears.
I'll provide a metaphor or analogy (not sure which applies best ): there are misguided souls that dump raw flour into their "neipas" to lighten the color and make them look "hazy"...
Cheers!
It would be helpful to know what the boil volume is. If it's significantly dense, it will trap heat at the bottom of the pot and darken at an accelerated rate. That's why white table sugar will turn into a medium brown caramel color in a matter of minutes.
Sure, O2 is bad for beer. But it doesn't turn a light beer to dark in weeks.
If it's a concentrated boil with LME, that's probably a fault in the process (not the ingredient). Partial boil with late additions (half the ingredients at the start of the boil, rest at the end) has been around since at least the early 2010s.
If the LME isn't dissolving, but sinking to the bottom, that's yet another process fault - make a slurry.
Once again, BBR Aug 25 / Nov 17, 2005.
Man, you guys and the O2 boogyman. Sure, O2 is bad for beer. But it doesn't turn a light beer to dark in weeks. Cmon. Many of you have been around here for a LOOONG time.
I don't have answers, but normally in this sort of case there is missing information. (Watson, please gather the usual info)
As one who takes many pictures of beer, I can say it’s very hard to capture an accurate representation of the true color. Light, glass style, angle, shadows, quantity, etc. all make a difference. If it’s good beer, roll with it.
- SRM: 9
View attachment 778617
Edit:@BrewnWKopperKat posted as I was typing.
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