Need help with simple Rims Build

[dordelli]

I've spent countless hours researching and am starting to buy parts for my Rims CP. I am not an electrician but do believe I have figured out the basics. My system will be pretty simple, 120vac with a 5500 watt element running at 1375 watts and one pump. I have a few questions and am hoping the experts here can help.

1) How do I know which Auber PID to buy, seems many builds use the 2352, is this the one I want?
2) Many of the builds I have seen use contactors, my element will draw only around 11 amps. If I can find 15 amp switches, can I skip contractors? Has anyone found 15 or 20 amp switches, that have some interest and are not common house switches?
3) I know I will need at least one SSR, is it really necessary to place the heat sink on the outside of the case, even for my simple system? Will I need a heat sink?
4) The enclosure I bought is plastic, how do I attach the electronics inside, can I mount a thin pc of plywood and attach my components to this board, is this unsafe.
5) Can anyone share a wiring diagram similar to my needs?

Thx in advance!!

 

[stlbeer]

1) How do I know which Auber PID to buy, seems many builds use the 2352, is this the one I want? Buy the 2352.

2) Many of the builds I have seen use contactors, my element will draw only around 11 amps. If I can find 15 amp switches, can I skip contractors? Has anyone found 15 or 20 amp switches, that have some interest and are not common house switches? Yes, you can use 15 amp switches.

3) I know I will need at least one SSR, is it really necessary to place the heat sink on the outside of the case, even for my simple system? Will I need a heat sink? Yes, you will need a heat sink. I have used them both inside and outside the case. Even for your set up I'd use outside the case.

4) The enclosure I bought is plastic, how do I attach the electronics inside, can I mount a thin pc of plywood and attach my components to this board, is this unsafe. That'll work. I've even used some 1x6 material before.

5) Can anyone share a wiring diagram similar to my needs? http://s160.photobucket.com/user/StLBeer/library/Brewing and Serving/RIMS?sort=3&page=1

 

[kal]

I'd use a metal plate instead of plywood if you can. It'll be thinner and safer.

Kal

 

[stlbeer]

I have to agree with you Kal. That's a much safer solution.

 

[jeffmeh]

Or a plastic baseplate with the major components on it tied to your grounding lug.

 

[dordelli]

Thanks for all the input everyone, I can probably buy a small pc of metal at the depot.

 

[dordelli]

Do I need the 1 amp fuse protecting the pid as I have seen on many of P-J's wiring diagrams?

 

[kal]

Do I need the 1 amp fuse protecting the pid as I have seen on many of P-J's wiring diagrams?

That is up to you. It's not 'needed' but some people like to add them.

For what it's worth, I find many people go over the top with protecting every device inside the panel with independent fuses. I use one 5-7A fuse before my 120V hot bus that covers all of the lower current devices (3 PIDs, timer, all 120V lights, pumps, etc).

Kal

 

[stlbeer]

Do I need the 1 amp fuse protecting the pid as I have seen on many of P-J's wiring diagrams?

Some do, but like Kal, I have a larger fuse protecting all of the PIDs. It's a modest price of protection for the more expensive items.

 

[dordelli]

But if I have a 5-7 amp fuse before my 120 hot bus, won't it blow when I fire up the element that will draw 11amps?

 

[kal]

But if I have a 5-7 amp fuse before my 120 hot bus, won't it blow when I fire up the element that will draw 11amps?

Yes, if you have everything wired through the hot bus. Wire the heating elements separately.

Sorry for the confusion - I was only pointing out what I do on my 240V/120V control panel. My heating elements go through the two HOT lines directly.

Kal

 

[stlbeer]

But if I have a 5-7 amp fuse before my 120 hot bus, won't it blow when I fire up the element that will draw 11amps?

Mine are fused like this:

From the Hot1 (of the Hot1 and Hot2 legs - each one 120v) create a branch to a 120v 15amp breaker. From the breaker add a fuse. From the fuse to the PIDS.


In this crappy picture, you see Hot1 and Hot2 (covers over the lugs are removed).



The first breaker on the left is rated 120v 15amp.



The Red distribution blocks are tied together via the strip at the top of the blocks. It is fed from the 120v 15a breaker. All of my 120v components tie in here.
Below that are the fuses for the various pieces of equipment (Pumps, PIDs, Aux power).


So power flows INLET -> DISTRO BLOCKS -> BREAKERS -> H1 to 120v DISTRO BLOCK and Contactors, H2 to SSR's -> other components.

 

[dordelli]

Stlbeer- thx for the photos although I can't say I completely understand them! I will follow your schematic but Had a few questions,

I want to add a main power switch, should I add before the hot bus?
Also, what type of switch should I use for the pump, can it be a regular spst and just jumper together the 3x outputs with a wire nut?
I do not want the element to fire unless the pump is on, so the hot supply to the SSR is outputted thru the pump switch, but why is there a 2nd hot on the SSR direct from the hot bus, shouldn't it be to neutral.
Lastly, I will use indicator switches, but are these rate to accept the full 15 amps my panel will draw?

 

[stlbeer]

I want to add a main power switch, should I add before the hot bus?

I don't have a main power switch in my panel. I have chosen to use the breaker as the main on/off since the power cord to the panel is hardwired into the GFCI breaker.

Also, what type of switch should I use for the pump, can it be a regular spst and just jumper together the 3x outputs with a wire nut?

The switch for the pump can be spst. I'm not sure what you mean by 'jumper together the 3x outputs with a wire nut?'

I do not want the element to fire unless the pump is on, so the hot supply to the SSR is outputted thru the pump switch, but why is there a 2nd hot on the SSR direct from the hot bus, shouldn't it be to neutral.

My setup is the same as you are asking, however, instead of using 120v I am using 240v so I have 2 hot legs. One goes to from the breaker directly to the contactor. The other goes from the breaker to the SSR then to the contactor. The contactor is a big relay that is controlled by a switch. It is used for switching high voltage/amperage. The contactor switch is 120v and actuates the electromagnet in the contractor.

In regards to not firing the RIMS element unless there the pump is on, I am using a DPST switch for this. One side of the switch has the pump power on it. The other side of the switch has the PID's SSR control circuit on it. This way, the only way the SSR gets it's control signal is when the switch is closed and when that happens the pump side will be active too.

Lastly, I will use indicator switches, but are these rate to accept the full 15 amps my panel will draw?

That's the reason to use a contactor. The full draw of the element doesn't have to go through the switch. You use a less expensive switch to switch the contactor off and on. That is what controls the power getting to the element.

Now you can buy 15 amp switches. They are more expensive though, but I don't really know how much they are.

I hope this helps. Keep asking questions if you don't understand.

 

[atoughram]

The heat sink depends on the current flow and voltage drop across the SSR. For years, my 120V RIMS tube SSR, driving about 1100W or 9-10amp, didnt have a heat sink. I had it bolted to the inside of my metal enclosure and used the enclosure to cool it. It never burned up and never felt hot to the touch when in operation - it wasnt an Auber brand but a Crydom. Still have it and I'm sure it still works. When I upgraded to 220V and heated my HLT with a 5500W unit, the Aubur SSR's can make a bunch of heat and require heatsinks.

Heat sinks are cheap insurance though.

 

[dordelli]

The heat sink depends on the current flow and voltage drop across the SSR. For years, my 120V RIMS tube SSR, driving about 1100W or 9-10amp, didnt have a heat sink. I had it bolted to the inside of my metal enclosure and used the enclosure to cool it. It never burned up and never felt hot to the touch when in operation - it wasnt an Auber brand but a Crydom. Still have it and I'm sure it still works. When I upgraded to 220V and heated my HLT with a 5500W unit, the Aubur SSR's can make a bunch of heat and require heatsinks.

Heat sinks are cheap insurance though.

I am gonna try it inside my case first, I didn't get the Aubur SSR either, I got this one from Amazon and this heatsink.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61Desu+9EeL._SL1500_.jpg
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61C1T0MmS5L._SL1500_.jpg

 

[dordelli]

In regards to not firing the RIMS element unless there the pump is on, I am using a DPST switch for this. One side of the switch has the pump power on it. The other side of the switch has the PID's SSR control circuit on it. This way, the only way the SSR gets it's control signal is when the switch is closed and when that happens the pump side will be active too.

I am gonna wire mine like this too.

 

[stlbeer]

Ok, looking good.