I had two vials of WLP001 that expired in sep of last year. I tried to build a starter with one of them last week but did not have a stir plate, after 3days of constant shaking and no apparent activity, I dumped it. For the 2nd vial, I have just built a stir plate and will try again but my question is, how will I know if I have enough cells for a healthy batch of beer. I can afford to lose a $6.99 vial of yeast but a whole batch of beer, no way!! And since I have never made a starter, what will it look like if I have viability, will it look like a batch of fermenting beer, will I see activity?
Expired WLP001
- Thread starter dordelli
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
If you dont use fermcap you will get krausen like normal and that will tell you the yeasties are alive. You can see the yeast, and if you crash you can see how big the cake is.
Less Yeast:
More Yeast:
Lots O Yeast:
Turing off the stir plate it will settle and you will be able to see how much yeasties you have.
a little more time
even more time, This is a ton of yeast BTW you probably wont need this much unless your making something crazy, in my case 7 gallons of 11%
Less Yeast:
More Yeast:
Lots O Yeast:
Turing off the stir plate it will settle and you will be able to see how much yeasties you have.
a little more time
even more time, This is a ton of yeast BTW you probably wont need this much unless your making something crazy, in my case 7 gallons of 11%
Kingbogart
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2013
- Messages
- 212
- Reaction score
- 37
Knowing how many viable cells you have is always a guessing game. A lot of the calculators will take a date and give you an estimate, but there are too many variables to say for certain.
When using a stirplate, the intention is to keep all the yeast in suspension, so seeing how much there is, is again difficult. The plus side is that there isn't any trub like in your fermenters, which means that any solid sediment is yeast. Turning off the plate and waiting a short period of time should let you see the yeast fall out of suspension. If there's more than what you pitched, you're doing well.
There will be some foam, but it usually stays minimal since you're stirring. Since a starter is essentially a mini batch of beer, you can take a hydrometer reading. If you SG is dropping, the yeast is working. You want to be very sanitary though, as any issues with your starter will almost definitely show in the batch the yeast is for.
When using a stirplate, the intention is to keep all the yeast in suspension, so seeing how much there is, is again difficult. The plus side is that there isn't any trub like in your fermenters, which means that any solid sediment is yeast. Turning off the plate and waiting a short period of time should let you see the yeast fall out of suspension. If there's more than what you pitched, you're doing well.
There will be some foam, but it usually stays minimal since you're stirring. Since a starter is essentially a mini batch of beer, you can take a hydrometer reading. If you SG is dropping, the yeast is working. You want to be very sanitary though, as any issues with your starter will almost definitely show in the batch the yeast is for.
Great info guys, love this site! The pics really help!! So should I do two starters? I think Mr Malty quoted 10% viability which means one starter won't work and maybe too much of a project for my first starter. I originally followed the white labs starter suggestion of 2 pints to 1/2 cup of Dme, so if I do this same formula twice (crashing and decanting in between) do u think it would be enough for. 1.050 OG Ale?
sandyeggoxj
Well-Known Member
Yeastcalculator.com says that you should have around 8 billion cells left in the vial. If you do 2, 2-liter steps of 1.037 starters then you should have ~275billion which would be enough for a 1.070 5-gallon batch.
But be very sanitary! Also, I was using Jamil's stir plate formula for cell growth.
But be very sanitary! Also, I was using Jamil's stir plate formula for cell growth.
you've just answered your own question. why take a chance on old, stressed out yeast? there is less than 10% of the population left in there, maybe less than 1%. you're going to have to do a lot of growing - of weak cells - and in the end you won't know how many cells you have and what condition they'll be in.
with a yeast population that small, you'll need to grow it up in steps. throwing those few cells into 2 liters of starter wort is a bad idea. they won't be able to ferment it completely and chances are very good that something undesirable will get in there. i would start with a small first step of 200-250 ml of 1.020 wort. let that ferment out before adding to a second bigger starter.
or just get some fresh, healthy yeast.
That's what I am trying to determine, if it makes sense to go thru the hassle. also fun to experiment with my yeast and learn, bonus if I can use them in a batch but will not lose sleep over $6.99.
sandyeggoxj
Well-Known Member
I would give it a shot. Worst case go buy fresh yeast. Or try to grow them up and use them in a little 1-gallon extract smash to see if you did well or failed miserably. Plus you could try a new hop and see what you think. If it works in the smash then you know you have good skills. If it doesn't you are only out a few bucks and know you need more practice. Either way you learn and have fun. I don't see how it could be bad!
sandyeggoxj
Well-Known Member
I love home brewing because you can mess around all you want. If you pour it out then oh well. There are pretty much no restrictions on what you can do.
Yup was just considering this, my Nephew gave me some Mr Beer refill kits for Xmas and have been trying to figure out what to do with them, he cant wait to come "try the beer", so this may be the perfect usage for the High Country Canadian Draft with some extra hops and dme. 2 gallon batch and a liter starter should do it.
sandyeggoxj
Well-Known Member
I would do 2 steps. One smaller .25-.5 liter and then a full liter. Just a thought.
it's worth doing as an experiment of your starter skillz.
however, i wouldn't risk an entire 5+ gallon batch of beer on a starter of questionable hearth and number. but that's me - i don't get to brew as often as i would like to these days, so the thought of a batch not being optimal because i decided to roll the dice with expired yeast scares me. maybe you're the type of person who is looking for an excuse to brew more, and doesn't mind a batch turning out less-then-awesome. in that case, go for it.
