Brewzilla Gen4 Discussion/Tips Talk

[mashdar]

ratio 4:1 grain water...total water...never used rice husk...not even a bag

Your grain should look like this:
https://images.fineartamerica.com/i...mlarge/2/crushed-malted-barley-jude-black.jpgSee how the husks almost look like un-crushed grain?

 

[Barão]

Your grain should look like this:
https://images.fineartamerica.com/i...mlarge/2/crushed-malted-barley-jude-black.jpgSee how the husks almost look like un-crushed grain?

Wow !!! ...this photo is very good...thank you

 

[mashdar]

Wow !!! ...this photo is very good...thank you

If you are having someone else crush your grain, or if you are using a flour mill/meat grinder and can't get the crush just right, rice hulls are an inexpensive thing you can add to your grain to help drainage. Add them after crushing and mix in.

If you bake with the spent grain, the rice hulls will be unpleasant to eat. Otherwise they work great!

 

[Barão]

If you are having someone else crush your grain, or if you are using a flour mill/meat grinder and can't get the crush just right, rice hulls are an inexpensive thing you can add to your grain to help drainage. Add them after crushing and mix in.

If you bake with the spent grain, the rice hulls will be unpleasant to eat. Otherwise they work great!

I buy it from a brewshop....already ground....I'm going for the rice husk.....thanks

 

[micraftbeer]

I recirculate very slowly....lever position 7 o'clock...the level rises...the pump stops...I lift the basket...it takes a LONG time to drain...sticky wort
I haven't opened the pump yet

I know we're talking general things here, but I would be more like an 8 o clock position, to slow the flow even more.

I also concur with the rice hull addition. I use maybe like 8 oz in a 5 gallon batch if I have something that's gonna be sticky.

 

[Barão]

I know we're talking general things here, but I would be more like an 8 o clock position, to slow the flow even more.

I also concur with the rice hull addition. I use maybe like 8 oz in a 5 gallon batch if I have something that's gonna be sticky.

thanks

 

[agentbud]

Your grain should look like this:
https://images.fineartamerica.com/i...mlarge/2/crushed-malted-barley-jude-black.jpgSee how the husks almost look like un-crushed grain?

That picture would make a great puzzle.

 

[Barão]

It sounds like your grain crush is too fine. Did you previously mash in a bag? Non-bag methods need more in-tact barley husks. You could add rice hulls if you can't control crush.

I have never used a bag...I have never used rice husks...I will study the case

 

[mashdar]

That picture would make a great puzzle.

It's for sale on all kinds of stuff, but I don't see a jigsaw puzzle!
https://fineartamerica.com/featured/crushed-malted-barley-jude-black.html

 

[jmstone617]

Has anyone attached camlocks or QD’s to the barb ends of the spigot or recirculation arm? Messing with hose clamps and flat head screwdrivers is . Curious what others are doing.

 

[mashdar]

Has anyone attached camlocks or QD’s to the barb ends of the spigot or recirculation arm? Messing with hose clamps and flat head screwdrivers is . Curious what others are doing.

I just leave the tubing clamped on recirc arm. No reason to disconnect for me.

You could always swap out the ball valve? edit: isn't the provided ball valve threaded with a barb fitting?

Maybe this would make you happier?
Butterfly Hose Clamp, for 7/16'' to 9/16'' OD tubing (didn't check size)

 

[jmstone617]

Yea, just ordered a few to try out. Thanks!

 

[triker]

For those of you, who like me, have been trying to update your Gen4 controller firmware since forever, and have exhausted all the stand on your head and wave your arms type of suggestions to "improve" your WiFi connection... There actually is something that works - enable Bluetooth. I just did that and instant success! I had occasionally been checking back with the bug report for this issue, and that solution recently popped up in the comments: OTA update error (#141) · Issues · Rapt.Io / Rapt.Io · GitLab

 

[bcampilongo]

hey @KegLand by any chance are you guys planning to launch a new whirpool arm for gen 4 in the coming months or is the current KL14199 the go to model to use?

 

[mashdar]

hey @KegLand by any chance are you guys planning to launch a new whirpool arm for gen 4 in the coming months or is the current KL14199 the go to model to use?

I have whatever arm morebeer was selling a year ago (likely that one). It works, but since the bottom is curved with the drain at the bottom, it doesn't help with hops. Maybe with the new solid bottom plate?

The Kegland docs said (a year ago) they do not recommend whirlpooling, but that predates the solid bottom plate.

I just recirc through a hop spider.

 

[jmstone617]

Which solid bottom plate are you referring to? I picked mine up in June and the bottom is still perforated.

 

[mashdar]

Which solid bottom plate are you referring to? I picked mine up in June and the bottom is still perforated.

This (35L) or the corresponding 65L version
https://www.morebeer.com/products/heat-exchanger-dish-hed-brewzilla-gen-4-35l.htmlI haven't looked at it too hard but it might make whirlpool viable if you watch for turbidity and cut flow.

 

[jmstone617]

Oh that’s not a replacement for the bottom plate though. I think that just sits under the existing false bottom.

 

[rtstrider]

How often does everyone deep clean the Brewzilla? I had neglected to do so in 20+ batches (at least 15 batches with the HED). The HED plate had a good bit of build up on there but I figured what the hey...Boil away. Did a deep clean of 4 gallons water, 2 scoops of Oxiclean at 170F and recirculated for two hours. Recirculated through the top arm and the bottom ball valve. Threw the counterflow chiller into the mix too! Have to say after seeing the crud that came out of there it will be getting deep cleaned way more often! My brews have been picking up a "slickness" here recently regardless of yeast. That's what sent me down the whole deep cleaning the Brewzilla route. Really curious to see the results of brewday this weekend!

 

[mashdar]

How often does everyone deep clean the Brewzilla? I had neglected to do so in 20+ batches (at least 15 batches with the HED). The HED plate had a good bit of build up on there but I figured what the hey...Boil away. Did a deep clean of 4 gallons water, 2 scoops of Oxiclean at 170F and recirculated for two hours. Recirculated through the top arm and the bottom ball valve. Threw the counterflow chiller into the mix too! Have to say after seeing the crud that came out of there it will be getting deep cleaned way more often! My brews have been picking up a "slickness" here recently regardless of yeast. That's what sent me down the whole deep cleaning the Brewzilla route. Really curious to see the results of brewday this weekend!

I've only done 2 deep cleans in a year. Before removing the T and spigot, I worried there might be nasties down there, but now I figure everything gets enough boiling hot recirc that it's more a flavor/color issue. I'm lazy

 

[rtstrider]

Realized I forgot to soak the malt pipe...DOH! Going to do that after work today. I will say the unit definitely smells a heckuva lot better already. This will definitely get done quarterly at the very least from now on. That was BAD!

 

[agentbud]

Not sure if this is a true deep clean but I do this after every brew: remove pipe and false bottom and rinse off with sprayer. Spray and wipe down inside brewzilla to get out all solids. Add pipe and bottom back, then fill with 2-3 gallons water and some PBW. Turn on heat and let it circ for 15-20 min while I am doing other things. Drain and rinse good. Maybe adds 20 min to my brew day but mostly gets done while I am attending to other things and/or drinking beer. I brew in my shed and have a 3-tub SS sink with sprayer right next to it so cleanup is pretty easy.

 

[rtstrider]

Finished soaking the malt pipe. Everything is air drying now. I can't believe how dirty this got. Will definitely have to CIP after every brew going forward.

 

[jmstone617]

Yea I definitely run PBW through after every brew. I just picked up Kegland’s low flow CIP sprayer so going to give that a shot with a brew probably this weekend

 

[DuncB]

I was very surprised when I pbw recirculated my counterflow chiller, lots of brown flakey bits were drifting round. I'd assumed my vigorous washout of it in the past with hosepipe and then boiling wort was good enough. It wasn't!

 

[apisgallus]

Oops....I found someone else who is having the same problem as me

I'm getting pretty sick of this issue clog pumped that is. It happens more than not. today I had to pour wort halfway through boil to kettle and propane burner which I'm glad we had. Wish kegland would put a real troubleshooting guide together with some good practices. would like to know optimal grain mill gap for this machine. Must admit would not recommend getting one if asked.pity because i think it is a good machine

 

[jmstone617]

I'm getting pretty sick of this issue clog pumped that is. It happens more than not. today I had to pour wort halfway through boil to kettle and propane burner which I'm glad we had. Wish kegland would put a real troubleshooting guide together with some good practices. would like to know optimal grain mill gap for this machine. Must admit would not recommend getting one if asked.pity because i think it is a good machine

I brewed yesterday and didn’t clog. I had grains premilled so I can’t speak to gap setting but one thing I noticed was if the malt pipe is too full grain seeps into the main kettle through the holes where the lift handle goes. I had to strain a bunch of grains out of there after removing the malt pipe. I also put hops into a hop sock this time which seemed to help.

 

[apisgallus]

I brewed yesterday and didn’t clog. I had grains premilled so I can’t speak to gap setting but one thing I noticed was if the malt pipe is too full grain seeps into the main kettle through the holes where the lift handle goes. I had to strain a bunch of grains out of there after removing the malt pipe. I also put hops into a hop sock this time which seemed to help.

have a hunch2 things are going on. two fine a crush credit card may be too fine 0.75 mm. european credit cards a la David heath are 0.85 mm. I usually mill at 0.85mm, but I had my local brew store mill for me and the use a credit card. second the false bottom gets really warped as its hard to remove. I had the heat plate attached which seems to distort the false bottom even more. maybe the combination of the two were a perfect storm. It would be interesting to see what mill gap size Gen 4 owners use or have problems with. also any idea how to flatten the false bottom with the heat plate attached would be gratefully received

 

[apisgallus]

I did my second brew (Pilsner) on the 65L Gen 4 Brewzilla and had better results than my first one. Please note that I have not calibrated the temperature yet; was planning on doing so once the Blutooth thermometer was available.

Here's a comparison of the two brews (both 5.5 gal batches):

First brew:
More Haze all grain kit from More Beer with 13 lbs 2-row, 1 lb flaked wheat, 1 lb flaked oats, 1 lb white wheat and about two large handfuls of rice hulls in the mash
Mill: ~0.038 in.
Mash was done directly in the basket with 6.1 gal of water (assuming 1.294 qt/lb absorption) @ 153F. Tried to get the PID set up beforehand, but still needed to play around with it. I would see anywhere between 152.8F and 156F.
Sparged with 2.9 gallons of water
Mash efficiency: 64% (added 1 lb of DME to get the ABV closer to the kit)
Mash experience: Didn't have any issues with the mash or the sparge getting stuck. Had the pump on at 100% and the ball valve at about 50%. I need to better figure out how to set the PID to get it more stable.
Hops: Total was 2.75 oz was put directly into the wort.
Yielded 6.1 gal in the fermenter
Taste: Great!
Clean up: A lot of the hops and some finer grains made it through the false bottom and clogged the pump making the transfer to the fermenter a little problematic. Unclogging the pump was lot very difficult, but annoying. The rest of the cleaning went very smoothly

Second brew:
Italian Pilsner with 9.75 lbs of Pilsner malt and 1.5 oz of Caramunich II in the mash
Mill: ~0.025 in.
Mash was done in the MoreBeer bag (BAG29, which is big enough to go outside the basket as well) inside the basket with 8.4 gallons of water (assuming 1.5 qt/lb absorption) @ 149F. Temperatures varied between 148.9F and 152F. Still need more finetuning of the PID.
No sparge was done
Mash efficiency: 85.4%
Mash experience: Everything went very smoothly at 100% pump and 50-60% open ball valve. Only need to improve the PID.
Hops: Total was 1.5 oz put into a mesh bag
Yielded 6.1 gal in the fermenter
Taste: Have not kegged it yet. Probably tomorrow.
Clean up: Very, very little hops and just a little grain made it through the false bottom. No issues with the pump and transfer went well. Clean up was much smoother and the grain bag and the hops bag weren't that much trouble.

During both brews, I would lift the lid and give the grain a good stir after 15 minutes, but only stirred the top portion of the mash every 15 minutes thereafter.

Coming from the Anvil Foundry 10.5 gal, I am used to using bags to get the most out of efficiency and don't mind the extra clean up, so I will likely continue to use grain and hop bags. I will continue to mill to 0.025 in., but I'll likely adjust the grain absorption value in Brewfather until I get 5.5 gal into the fermenter. Next time I will spare in addition to the grain bag (forgot to move the water out of the Brewzilla before adding grain in the second batch, otherwise I would have).

Any suggestions on setting the PID? Are people mashing with the heating elements at 100%? Seemed if I adjusted it to below 80%, it couldn't get the mash temp up to the target. If I put it higher, it would shoot past the target occasionally by up to 3F.

How much of an overshoot are you seeing? What's your hysteresis setting?

check out home brew network videos on pid hysteresis and temp difference

 

[mashdar]

have a hunch2 things are going on. two fine a crush credit card may be too fine 0.75 mm. european credit cards a la David heath are 0.85 mm. I usually mill at 0.85mm, but I had my local brew store mill for me and the use a credit card. second the false bottom gets really warped as its hard to remove. I had the heat plate attached which seems to distort the false bottom even more. maybe the combination of the two were a perfect storm. It would be interesting to see what mill gap size Gen 4 owners use or have problems with. also any idea how to flatten the false bottom with the heat plate attached would be gratefully received

Are you throttling your pump and ensuring it's not overflowing? (Overflow is a clog hazard. Full pump flow will almost certainly cause overflow.)

Are you using % pump setting? (This can suck grain backwards into pump.)

Re gapping, I've used ~0.75mm without issues, but I recirc through a hop spider while approaching boil to catch as much grist as I can (more for flavor reasons than pump clogging, though).

Other potential issues are how you're adding the grain, malt pipe bottom floating, etc. Could you be using the wrong plate for the bottom of the malt pipe? Etc

 

[micraftbeer]

I crush with 0.033" / 0.8382 mm gap on a Monster Mill MM-3 (3 roller mill). I haven't had any stuck mashes.

Note that gap has to be referenced by the mill as well. I did grain crush comparisons between my 2 roller and this MM-3. At the 0.033" gap on 2 roller I had some uncracked grains. The 3 roller first passes through 0.050" before the 0.033", and that dual pass makes a difference. I typically get 80-82% mash efficiency with this crush on the Brewzilla (doing a sparge).

 

[mashdar]

Note that gap has to be referenced by the mill as well. I did grain crush comparisons between my 2 roller and this MM-3. At the 0.033" gap on 2 roller I had some uncracked grains. The 3 roller first passes through 0.050" before the 0.033", and that dual pass makes a difference. I typically get 80-82% mash efficiency with this crush on the Brewzilla (doing a sparge).

Personally I just adjusted until I got pretty much 100% grains cracked, but husks as in tact as possible. Some grains look like they didn't get crushed, but they actually are cracked.

 

[apisgallus]

Are you throttling your pump and ensuring it's not overflowing? (Overflow is a clog hazard. Full pump flow will almost certainly cause overflow.)

Are you using % pump setting? (This can suck grain backwards into pump.)

Re gapping, I've used ~0.75mm without issues, but I recirc through a hop spider while approaching boil to catch as much grist as I can (more for flavor reasons than pump clogging, though).

Other potential issues are how you're adding the grain, malt pipe bottom floating, etc. Could you be using the wrong plate for the bottom of the malt pipe? Etc

yes throttling, no overflow, 100% pump, just bought plate for 35 L. Think I might go with BIAB. Question inside or outside of malt pipe

 

[agentbud]

yes throttling, no overflow, 100% pump, just bought plate for 35 L. Think I might go with BIAB. Question inside or outside of malt pipe

I use a bag and put it inside the pipe. Works great

 

[apisgallus]

thanks. i will let people know how it works.
btw the heat shield does give a more vigorous boil though

 

[jmstone617]

If you are using a bag, do you need the malt pipe? I know someone who uses a bag with the anvil and just ditched the pipe entirely. I don’t think you gain anything by using both?

 

[rtstrider]

I'm getting pretty sick of this issue clog pumped that is. It happens more than not. today I had to pour wort halfway through boil to kettle and propane burner which I'm glad we had. Wish kegland would put a real troubleshooting guide together with some good practices. would like to know optimal grain mill gap for this machine. Must admit would not recommend getting one if asked.pity because i think it is a good machine

I crush around .040" and it works fine with the Northern Brewer Hullwrecker. I've found anything finer than that is clog city, regardless of rice hulls, with this unit. I get around 70%-75% efficiency now and the brews have come out way better than they did when crushing at .032". I was getting near 90% efficiency at that crush, crazy stuck recirculation, and the brews were darn near rocket fuel lol! Also tried the brew bag method. While it definitely helped with the clogging issues the efficiency was all over the place. Sometimes it was crazy high and others it was crazy low ranging from 50% to 90% efficiency. Going for .040" has kept the brew days much more hassle free and has stabilized efficiency along with fixing the clogged malt pipe during recirculation issues. The other recommendation would be the ditch the top plate on the malt pipe. I've found that tends to compress the grain bed causing stuck recirculation as well.

 

[DuncB]

Could try 040 for half or two thirds and then pour the finer on top, might nuge efficiency without compromise.

 

[meako]

Hey all,
I’ve been following this thread and it’s been really informative and helpful so far, but I’m still getting a stuck mash with my Brewzilla Gen 4 (35l).

I’ve tried most of the suggested advice mentioned in this thread including:
1. Once mashed in, allowing the mash to settle for 15 mins before turning on recirc
2. When turning on recirc opening the ball valve in small increments every 10/15mins throughout the mash, avoiding full flow.
3. Stirring the mash every 10/20/30 minutes leaving around 1/3 of grain bed intact.
4. Top plate or no top plate

I’m out of ideas other than my grain crush. I purchased 25kg pre crushed of Maris Otter, I’ve got through the whole bag but each time have experienced a stuck mashed. The malt pipe will continue filling and the false bottom will run dry. Sometimes the pump will block too.

The only thing I haven’t tried is rice hulls.

Stuck sparge seems to be an issue mentioned a lot on the few threads/discussions I can find relating to the Gen 4.

Attached is my crush, hoping to get some thoughts on this.

Appreciate any help, thanks all.

 

[mashdar]

Hey all,
I’ve been following this thread and it’s been really informative and helpful so far, but I’m still getting a stuck mash with my Brewzilla Gen 4 (35l).

I’ve tried most of the suggested advice mentioned in this thread including:
1. Once mashed in, allowing the mash to settle for 15 mins before turning on recirc
2. When turning on recirc opening the ball valve in small increments every 10/15mins throughout the mash, avoiding full flow.
3. Stirring the mash every 10/20/30 minutes leaving around 1/3 of grain bed intact.
4. Top plate or no top plate

I’m out of ideas other than my grain crush. I purchased 25kg pre crushed of Maris Otter, I’ve got through the whole bag but each time have experienced a stuck mashed. The malt pipe will continue filling and the false bottom will run dry. Sometimes the pump will block too.

The only thing I haven’t tried is rice hulls.

Stuck sparge seems to be an issue mentioned a lot on the few threads/discussions I can find relating to the Gen 4.

Attached is my crush, hoping to get some thoughts on this.

Appreciate any help, thanks all.

That's a beautiful crush. Better than I can do at home. I doubt that's the issue.

Are you using enough water? These systems have a lot of dead space, so upping water:grist ratio is needed. I use 1.5+ qt/lb, typically closer to 1.8. (edit: can be lower for big beers; there's actually a fixed dead space at bottom, and variable around the malt pipe.)

Also, I find a setting for the pump that doesn't overflow and just stick with it. Idk of it could be opened more later in mash. (edit: and if your mash is small enough, it might not overflow but run the pump dry. I try to note where the water level is and watch for it creeping up.)