Advice on how to enjoy homebrewing over the years without becoming an alcoholic.
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Most line supervisors never went to any management school. Being good at a job doesn't mean being good at supervising those who do that job. Reading Dilbert and watching Office Space might be valuable to clueless bosses. Or maybe they can't be awakened from their dreams of power.
This is consistent with at least one definition of alcoholism. But, obviously...
Even if some of us can drink plenty without becoming addicted, we may be adversely affecting our health in exchange for the pleasure of drinking. alcoholic beverages. That is its own kind of problem.
We enjoy lots of hobbies that aren't good for our health, but we need to realize that and make adjustments.
As a guy who worked his way from the lowest level to the president of the company I learned this. If you ever wonder why your boss is such an a**hole become a boss and you will understand. The income doesn't necessarily match the stress. As the company president, dealing with 120 employees, the owners and countless clients made drinking too much the easiest path.
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Don't get me started on my cheese addiction. Tonight was a moderate night until I pulled the cheese plate out and was forced to open a bottle of wine more suitable for the cheese we had.
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I hate when that happens.
jrgtr42
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The longer I spend in cube-farmdom, that movie becomes both funnier and more sad...
But to the question at hand, there is a lot more to alcoholism than just drinking a lot. Some folks can drink like fish and by those markers - having it affecting them in various ways - don't quaalify as such. THen others drink comparatively small amounts, but it's still affecting them. Of course, to other people, having one drink makes one a complete lush.
Myself, I enjoy a beer or 2 many evenings. I do normally hold off until the kiddo is in bed before opening one. But almost as often as not, by the time that happens, and dinner is done (I work a weird schedule - we're eating dinner most of the time after he's in bed) and things are cleaned up, I don't feel like going down to the beer fridge / cellar to get one.
Same thing with my homebrewing, I don't have a kegerator, so I limit it to one tapped at a time. I usually plan to have one on deck for when that one kicks, and it takes a while to knock off a full keg. I do have a couple recipes that I still bottle, though those are as much out of sight, out of mind.
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When I first converted our fridge to a back porch kegerator I couldn't walk past it without pulling a small beer, at least for the first couple of months. After that I settled into a more suitable pattern of consumption-2 or 3 glasses each evening if it was just my wife and I. If friends or neighbors stopped by all bets were off. Now we live out in the woods, no neighbors nearby and no casual friends who drink beer so a keg will now last me a month or 2 easily. I do not miss the daily drinking sessions, life is much better spent drinking less.
Ingo
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Great thread and lots of good advice.
I used to drink quite badly around 20-30 years old while partying a lot.
Now days at 48 I don't like the feeling of being drunk but I sure like beer.
I quite recently started brewing so I'm drinking 1-2 beers most weekdays and Sometimes an extra 2-3 in weekends if partying.
But I give away half of my 20L batches and I like to finish drinking a batch before brewing a new one so there's always going to be 2-3 weeks without any beer.
But I recently came from a week in London where I had several beers every day and the first one Sometimes around noon. I am very aware of my consumptiin and it's not affecting my life in a negative way so no worries.
But I consciously take brakes from drinking 'cause I like that too.
Maybe I'm just lucky that I no longer like to feel drunk so that doesn't happen. I only like to feel a little tipsy.
I used to drink quite badly around 20-30 years old while partying a lot.
Now days at 48 I don't like the feeling of being drunk but I sure like beer.
I quite recently started brewing so I'm drinking 1-2 beers most weekdays and Sometimes an extra 2-3 in weekends if partying.
But I give away half of my 20L batches and I like to finish drinking a batch before brewing a new one so there's always going to be 2-3 weeks without any beer.
But I recently came from a week in London where I had several beers every day and the first one Sometimes around noon. I am very aware of my consumptiin and it's not affecting my life in a negative way so no worries.
But I consciously take brakes from drinking 'cause I like that too.
Maybe I'm just lucky that I no longer like to feel drunk so that doesn't happen. I only like to feel a little tipsy.
^THIS!^
I remember back in college how me and my buddies used to love Monday Night Football. When Hank started singing; we started popping the tops!!
By the time all the expert analysis was over and kickoff was imminent, we were popping #2. Started second quarter with #3. I usually took a break at halftime, and started off the second half with #4, which may or may not get completely finished.
Then I graduated; got married; got a job. Yeah, I tried that routine, but to no avail. First, I started falling asleep and missing the 4th quarter. Then, I would dose off in the third.
By the time we had a couple kids, I was lucky to see half-time.
I decided that if I wanted to see the end of the game, I would have to delay the startup of beer drinking. Of course, with the game being so late on the east coast, who wants to start drinking late on a Monday night???
I finally found the solution; I gave up watching football!
But seriously, as I have aged, it takes less and less to just put me out; not passed out drunk, just closing the eyes and gone. I like most of my beer (or wine) with meals (at home) these days.
I had a grandfather who had problems with alcohol when he was young. I had an uncle who died from alcoholism. I don’t want to push any limits, and keep it in my mind that if you play with fire there’s a chance you’re gonna get burned. Not something that I want to happen. I feel absolutely sure that I could do without alcohol altogether, but as long as I can control it, and it’s not controlling me, I plan to tread on, but carefully.
capt82
Well-Known Member
Self control is obviously the answer here. Without it, ALL advice is pointless. For those of you with self control, my advice is to brew 7% and higher ABV beers for the weekdays and 4-5% ABV beers for the weekends. The trick here is to limit yourself 1 high ABV beer per night on weekdays and 2-3 low ABV beers per day on weekends. One high ABV beer is enough to end the days stresses, get a fuzzy feeling, fall asleep effortlessly, and not have any ill effects come morning time. On the weekends, 2-3 lower ABV beers gives you some controlled social time nursing your craft while getting your buddies lit up with the high ABV beers.
I always told my kids when they started going to parties..."stay in control and NEVER be the entertainment"
I always told my kids when they started going to parties..."stay in control and NEVER be the entertainment"
A system I used for several years was to use a number system with the ABV. I picked a number, usually around 18. I could drink 3 6% beers, or 2 8%, as long as the number stayed around 18. It actually made me aware of how much alcohol I was drinking, not just how many beers. 8 years ago health issues forced me to abandon beer for several years, once I started drinking again I didn't drink much at all and abandoned my system.
capt82
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In the 80's was my first home brew from a kit. After realizing it took me a month to make 50 beers, I abandoned home brewing because the brewing couldn't keep up with the drinking. It wasn't until around 20 years later I took up home brewing again. This time I only drank my home brew so I savored each beer so I would never run out. It also allowed me to enjoy home brewing as a hobby and make beer all about quality vs quantity. I guess I can say homebrewing actually trained me to drink less.
I went the opposite direction. I had 2 kegerators that held 6 kegs each,I normally had 10 very different beers on tap. I started brewing to get drunk, then spent a week in Belgium, which totally blew my mind. The next year we spent 2 weeks traveling across Germany drinking in small town breweries.I started refining my process, paying attention to techniques instead of recipes. I had lots of "friends" to hang with, and other brewers I learned from. So now I've brewed since my wife bought my first homebrew kit in 1992.
beersk
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I feel like this was very much me as well, particularly the last 4 years since the bloody pandemic. And only in the last about year have I really been starting to notice that maybe it's not so good for me anymore. Pre-pandemic I used to ride my bike to work every single day, about 20-25 minutes each way, and not slow either. I rode all year in Iowa weather. Then pandemic hits and my built-in workout routine is gone. Continuing to eat and drink the same and bike less equals less than optimal health outcomes lol
Lately it's starting to surface as heart palpitations. This started shortly after I got covid in 2022, so I'm wondering if that's really what set it off. But it also seems worsened in the following days after a run of heavy drinking days. It's scary and I'm addressing it with my doctor. Makes me wonder if it was covid or just the amount I drink... I don't know if I have an intolerance for alcohol or what.
capt82
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The only drinks I ever heard giving palpitations are coffee and energy drinks...caffeine. I'd bet on the covid or even the damn shots. I read beer is very healthy like wine is, in moderation, but please don't take this as any advice for I am no doctor. If I live to 100 I will certainly credit beer, or at least my homebrew craft beer. I hope this is just a passing thing for you. My wife has palpitations from anxiety. Meds keep it at bay. I tried to get her on my one high ABV beer a night program to combat the anxiety but beer is not her thing.
monkeymath
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You touch an important topic here that should not be taken too lightheartedly. When I went to some homebrewer meetups (pre COVID) in Hamburg, Germany, at least a third of the guys there seemed to have a problematic relationship with alcohol.
For myself, my interest in brewing and drinking beer is mostly based on curiosity: I want to see all the possibilities and try a million things in pursuit of the perfect beer.
But if given a crate of "the perfect beer", I actually wouldn't know what to do with it.
So over the last years, I have mostly allowed myself the indulgence, eyeing it with a certain "benevolent scepticism" where I would keep track of how much I was drinking when, but without beating myself up about it if it was more than I had hoped.
And I noticed that it comes and goes in waves. At times, I find myself having a beer five days a week, and then there'll be a bottle occupying space in my fridge for three weeks just because I never felt like cracking one open.
Over time, as my curiosity becomes saturated, this enthusiasm over beer is slowly decreasing. I still enjoy a good pint, sure, but at the end of the day: it's just beer.
For myself, my interest in brewing and drinking beer is mostly based on curiosity: I want to see all the possibilities and try a million things in pursuit of the perfect beer.
But if given a crate of "the perfect beer", I actually wouldn't know what to do with it.
So over the last years, I have mostly allowed myself the indulgence, eyeing it with a certain "benevolent scepticism" where I would keep track of how much I was drinking when, but without beating myself up about it if it was more than I had hoped.
And I noticed that it comes and goes in waves. At times, I find myself having a beer five days a week, and then there'll be a bottle occupying space in my fridge for three weeks just because I never felt like cracking one open.
Over time, as my curiosity becomes saturated, this enthusiasm over beer is slowly decreasing. I still enjoy a good pint, sure, but at the end of the day: it's just beer.
I don't drink for the buzz anymore, and I try to avoid unhappy outcomes by not doing heavy drinking...
Cheers!
Cheers!
"Holiday Heart Syndrome", atrial fibrillation, arrhythmia. Possible affects of alcohol on heart activity. It's a thing.
Dancy
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I have a-fib -- “palpitations” and
I haven't brewed a batch of beer since before my heart attack on 7/5/23. I was also diagnosed with a-fib and the palpitations I'd experienced for a couple of years prior to that are consistent with that. I had zero alcohol for maybe 5 months but then I tried some here and there. Studies show a correlation between a-fib and alcohol use, and it does not even have to be heavy drinking.
The studies about the effects of alcohol on our health are out there -- reputable ones -- if you wanna see them. I am trying to decide if I want to quit drinking entirely. I miss brewing, but I was not prolific about it as brewing 5-gallon batches in a small condo kitchen is something of a PITA. Maybe I can occasionally brew 3-4 gallons if I decide to imbibe conservatively. I still view HBT 4-5x/week and enjoy it but that has finally become a bit boring since I am not actively brewing.
I have no illusions there is a health benefit to alcohol and I'm of the opinion anyone who believes there is one is simply kidding themselves -- perhaps going on old information or reading sources that tell some what they want to believe. It is clear any perceived health benefit is obliterated by the scientifically proven downsides. Due to a family history of heart issues and serious, ongoing concerns I have with my heart requiring monitoring and likely future surgery, I must be honest with myself when I research how drinking affects one's health.
In the thread, there's been discussion about number of drinks per day, being in control, not being in control (alcoholism). The NIH states,
"Physicians operationally defined "light" drinking as 1.2 drinks/day, "moderate" drinking as 2.2 drinks/day, and "heavy" drinking as 3.5 drinks/day. Abusive drinking was defined as 5.4 drinks/day". There are even more details on the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism website.
You've all seen the numbers. I brewed mostly Belgian Triples and Quads at 9% to nearly 12%, so one of those is 2-3 alcoholic drinks. Many of us brew stronger beers than the official equivalent of one alcoholic drink, so I am wondering when I see posts on HBT stating having 2 or 3, what is the actual number of alcoholic drinks, really
It certainly is not for me to say people shouldn't drink and though I am enjoying it occasionally right now, I may need to quit 100%. For me, any amount may not be worthwhile. I am 65 and I am "medically complex" (my doc said). No doubt many of you are genetically, biologically superior to me (younger!) and the health risks make it worth it to you; although, I've learned we cannot know everything that is going on inside our bodies until a diagnosis shows up at some point, sometime too late, so excessive alcohol abuse may catch up with you unexpectedly.
It seems clear to me if even the finest human specimen is a moderate to heavy drinker over a long period of time, it will affect their health. Of course, some will live to 85 regardless of their bad lifestyle choices, so if you want to pick that person as your example to justify heavy drinking, go ahead. Also, I believe many of the self-declared "moderate" drinkers are heavy drinkers. We often determine our own standards regarding alcoholic behavior or light versus moderate versus heavy drinking. We convince ourselves of what we want to believe -- I have been guilty of it.
Very well said. I hope your heart will get well soon.
capt82
Well-Known Member
In my previous post you refer to, I disclosed I am no medical doctor. I made the statements based on my own experiences. Perhaps I'm wrong...like studies (from medical doctors) that show moderate consumption of beer/wine is healthy. Perhaps studies (from medical doctors) that show multiple covid-19 vaccinations are safe too. When seemingly healthy people suffered ill effects, of course it's human nature (as well as medical nature) to find a cause. When athletes began to drop after the shots, the shots were the blame. Even after the studies (from medical doctors), can we conclude if the shots caused these athletes to go down? Medical doctors have not concluded anything as far as I know. Obviously most everyone who got the jab did not suffer any ill effect so shots are still being given to those who subscribe.
I too would have stopped drinking my "live to 100" elixir if I was in your shoes. Weather or not it was proven to be the actual cause or I was already programmed to not tolerate alcohol? It really doesn't matter. I've seen 100's of dead people from car wrecks over a 30+ year career, but yet I still choose to drive. There was an underlying cause for everyone of those car wrecks (ie mechanical, falling asleep, ETOH, texting etc...) and simply "driving" was never the cause...but if they weren't driving to begin with, their death would have never happened.
You are absolutely correct in your post. I believe we are all pre programmed (via DNA, genetics, family history) on what our bodies will and won't do. I was never able to be an athlete or a medical doctor. I am also guilty of subscribing to what I want to believe (lacking facts to prove otherwise). Maybe I'm not looking for the facts! I no longer believe in the shot after taking the first two. Maybe I'm wrong about that too. I'm sorry you have to experience this "medically complex" diagnosis as your doctor called it.
I too would have stopped drinking my "live to 100" elixir if I was in your shoes. Weather or not it was proven to be the actual cause or I was already programmed to not tolerate alcohol? It really doesn't matter. I've seen 100's of dead people from car wrecks over a 30+ year career, but yet I still choose to drive. There was an underlying cause for everyone of those car wrecks (ie mechanical, falling asleep, ETOH, texting etc...) and simply "driving" was never the cause...but if they weren't driving to begin with, their death would have never happened.
You are absolutely correct in your post. I believe we are all pre programmed (via DNA, genetics, family history) on what our bodies will and won't do. I was never able to be an athlete or a medical doctor. I am also guilty of subscribing to what I want to believe (lacking facts to prove otherwise). Maybe I'm not looking for the facts! I no longer believe in the shot after taking the first two. Maybe I'm wrong about that too. I'm sorry you have to experience this "medically complex" diagnosis as your doctor called it.
I wonder what this conversation would be like if it were happening in a different era.
Drunkards will not inherit the kingdom of heaven--this is black and white. But where is the line that separates a drinker from a drunkard? That's a moral question that only exists within a Christian context.
I am fairly certain that nobody who lived before the second half of the 20th century, and outside the West, considered that there might be a moral component to choices that might shorten one's lifespan (I'm happy to hear a counterexample if somebody has one).
That makes the question specifically an artifact of the post-Christian 20th century West--a civilization uniquely unsuited to producing a concerts answer. The world is funny.
Drunkards will not inherit the kingdom of heaven--this is black and white. But where is the line that separates a drinker from a drunkard? That's a moral question that only exists within a Christian context.
I am fairly certain that nobody who lived before the second half of the 20th century, and outside the West, considered that there might be a moral component to choices that might shorten one's lifespan (I'm happy to hear a counterexample if somebody has one).
That makes the question specifically an artifact of the post-Christian 20th century West--a civilization uniquely unsuited to producing a concerts answer. The world is funny.
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